My 1250cc Fiat Cinquecento Turbo

matt_cento wrote:

munkul wrote:Matt are you Atkinson?

what injectors have you went for?

I need to get some bought. Was thinking 240cc ones.

Thats me.. Im planning on using some 250cc one's atm, tho i do have some 350cc ones. And from what you have said on injectors i do believe your correct. Does the megasquirt allow fully Sequential injection, as im only able to do semi sequential with the DTA?

EDIT: Jason can you get a copy of the RR graph up, i'd like to see it.

350cc is fair overkill lol

MS-2 Extra allows fully sequential injection with up to 4 cylinder engines, but you have to build another 2 injector firing circuits on the board (Not a hard job. Just two are built on the basic setup.)

Im thinking about using VX redtop injectors but i think i need another trip to the scrappy - dont want to spend £85 on tested and cleaned ones if they wont fit on my manifold lol

Cit C2 VTS wrote:Not been in it yet but when we went out other night it looked rapid.

it felt it too mate hehe. Its like an italian mouse on steroids!

lol

thanks

jason

matt_cento wrote:

munkul wrote:Matt are you Atkinson?

what injectors have you went for?

I need to get some bought. Was thinking 240cc ones.

Thats me.. Im planning on using some 250cc one's atm, tho i do have some 350cc ones. And from what you have said on injectors i do believe your correct. Does the megasquirt allow fully Sequential injection, as im only able to do semi sequential with the DTA?

EDIT: Jason can you get a copy of the RR graph up, i'd like to see it.

ill do my best to scan it onto the computor mate for you

you will find it interesting reading mate the graph its so so so differnt to the old t15 graph! all the going on is higher up in the revs where it should be to make the car out and out fast without sacravising to much low end. It makes the the torque off a low boost long before the turbo hits hard at 3500rpm so you get a nice progressive pull into the "silly power" revs hehe.

thanks

jason

munkul wrote:it doesnt work that way mate... at least not with the setups ive used (standard 16v batch, Greddy sequential, and megasquirt batch)

They all use pulse width modulation with each single injector opening once per 4 stroke cycle on its cylinder.

Batch injection means 2 injectors are fired at the same time, with no regard to synchronizing it with any cylinder's intake stroke. It sounds daft but it obviously works. Sequential injection is obviously different in that each injector is fired on the intake stroke or just before, of each individual cylinder.

The amount of fuel delivered is exactly the same in each case. Well not exactly - because you have a slightly better control over sequential systems, they can be tuned for economy better since every cylinder receives a uniformly mixed dose of air/fuel since it is injected in the same place of every cycle of every cylinder. That is why all the newest engines use sequential.

But the principle is the same - injector timing is far from critical, and the same amount of fuel is injected each time.

I dont claim to know everything about engines (although i try) but...
This crack about 3-4 pulses per 4 stroke cycle has me mystified, it sounds daft, and i think you are missing something. By the time your 4 pulses have finished, my single large pulse in the same timespace will have injected far more fuel than yours anyways

Can we stop with the contridicting things i talk about on the forum mate, im not daft

Your spot on with the setups you talk off mate but my setup is nothing like these, im using the MF2 which will only fire all four injectors at one time, plus it uses speed regulated pulses to controll the injectors so the only way im aware of to increase fueling is too increase the amount off pulses therefore increasing the amount off fuel in my setup. I called up Nobles today to confirm my thoughts and they confirmed that the pulses per cycle on this set up are four, just as i was told by others
Im not 100 percent clued up on the MF2's workings for example i dont no if the duration can be changed as apposed to the amount off pulses in a time span but either way they have set it up like this for a reason and using this method to give more fuel in my setup as apposed to the car the injectors came from is simple, in the volvo the sequensial setup would fire the injecotor once into the open port where as in mine the opening off the injector will have happened 3 times before the final firing off the injecotor into the now opening port i.e more fuel......just what ive been told mate and the setup works well, and 156bhp from a fueling setup described as "daft" is fine by me

Main thing for me is the setup is working well all be it a low budjet mpi conversion the future may bring sequensial indipendant mpi setup but ill see

jason

like a f***in married couple

They way you described it, it just sounded so wrong, thats all mate. I didnt mean to sound contradictory but i just hate seeing people not knowing what they are talking about, even if they know loads about other things. Obviously you do know what you are on about though In the same way i dont mind one bit if i get something wrong and someone corrects me if they think they know better. Its nothing to do with knowlege-penis size.

Ive never seen or used the MF2 system, i just assumed it would be similar to most other FI systems using PWM. Obviously i was wrong, i should have checked rather than assuming thanks for putting me straight.
Im glad i didnt go for an MF2 now if they are as restrictive as that!

I wasnt describing your fuel setup as daft, just the principle of batch injection (it sounded daft to me when i first learnt about it!). I think we will both agree though that all piggyback fuelling including both yours and mine are flawed as far as management goes, though.

EDIT: "I believe in the volvo they ran sequensial injection so in batched injection they deliver alot off fuel!"

^^^threw me right off, because comparing PWM control (sequential or batch) to whatever-you-call-the-MF2 control still doesnt make this right.

munkul wrote:They way you described it, it just sounded so wrong, thats all mate. I didnt mean to sound contradictory but i just hate seeing people not knowing what they are talking about, even if they know loads about other things. Obviously you do know what you are on about though In the same way i dont mind one bit if i get something wrong and someone corrects me if they think they know better. Its nothing to do with knowlege-penis size.

Ive never seen or used the MF2 system, i just assumed it would be similar to most other FI systems using PWM. Obviously i was wrong, i should have checked rather than assuming thanks for putting me straight.
Im glad i didnt go for an MF2 now if they are as restrictive as that!

I wasnt describing your fuel setup as daft, just the principle of batch injection (it sounded daft to me when i first learnt about it!). I think we will both agree though that all piggyback fuelling including both yours and mine are flawed as far as management goes, though.

EDIT: "I believe in the volvo they ran sequensial injection so in batched injection they deliver alot off fuel!"

^^^threw me right off, because comparing PWM control (sequential or batch) to whatever-you-call-the-MF2 control still doesnt make this right.

No worries mate, and i agree with the piggyback theory being a bodge for deffinate,spose they get the job done for cheap lol. id love to go down the omex 600 sequensial ECU or megasquirt etc route one day when the piggy bank gets bigger, be interesting to see what your megasquirt can do for your car over the current setup.

And yes the MF2 isnt the most advanced bit off kit id love to swap to something else for the time being but its doing the job very well for a controller origonally intended for water injection and the fuel consumption isnt as bad a as what id thought with the fuel pooling issue caused by the amount off fuel sprayed into a closed valve port especialy considering the fact that there is a very easy 15-20bhp to be had from this setup/boost by getting a half decent intercooler and removing the BOB's restrictive inlet pipe

Sorry if i sounded moody mate i worded it badly and i didnt really exsplain that i was talking about my setup and how it works in the case off the MF2 but be assured i really wouldnt put something down in writing if i didnt have good reason to believe its true i work hard to learn the best about my tuning aspecially with my own car ........but then im relying on info given to me from variuos sorces and that info can always be a little away from the truth.

thanks

jason

88rsr wrote:like a f***in married couple

ye cheers mate

hahah, i was only getting jealous mate i thought i was the only woman in your life (well... i mean woman at the weekends when i borrow our lasses clothes n shi.. eh)
anyway, back on topic the motor is coming along nicely mate, you might almost be able to keep up with them 1.0 corsas (if your lucky)

oh yes the little cinq is a monster now! Went in it the day it was back and f**k me its like a rocket ship now! I am
very impressed with it and jays hard work has finally paid off, well done droppins

Heard u finally got it sorted Jay beast! Can't wait see the back end drop lol we need to get a meet organized soon or a run somewhere f**k my job i just wont turn up if I'm working, i need revs and petrol-headedness!!!

RotaryLove wrote:Heard u finally got it sorted Jay beast! Can't wait see the back end drop lol we need to get a meet organized soon or a run somewhere f**k my job i just wont turn up if I'm working, i need revs and petrol-headedness!!!

eyup mate how are you and how was the holiday? yes ive got the car up and running on the new setup, it great, it did 167bhp @ 18psi with 160lb/sf with a restrictor on the throttle body plenum and a small intercooler! recon it will crack 200 with a big cooler and a 2" plenum inlet, but im running 14psi as setup on the rolling road running 156bhp and 145lb/sf of torque. The 2" plenum will be sorted soon so it should see over 160bhp and 150lb/sf.
Yes we will have get out on a cruise again mate ive missed ht ebig outings!

thanks

jason

here are some off my latest pics and mods to the cinq -

new seatbelt setup -



I cleaned the very mucky intercooler which resulted in a 3 degree average temp drop on the cooler log along with my new mist spray intercooler water spray!



Before and after off the intercooler cleaning and also my new mushroom air filter!



thanks

jason

That is now my favourite cinq ever. Looks soooo mean! Never seen that rear bumper design before either. And as for the interior....could you get any more gadgets and gauges in there if you tried? lol

Your air filter is gonna get some abuse from flies from this time of year on though

Lookin very nice jay like the idea of the harnesses bet they hold you nice and secure and i still haven't been in it yet.

Looking really sick now we will have to go out some time when i get back loving the new seat belts

Thanks guys great comments makes it all worth while

munkel - thanks mate i love it too, your dead right about the airfilter cant wait to start plucking out the flies after the usual trips to skeggy haha...should be fun. The gadjets are a little ott hehe... im one off those copit types where lots off gauges, switches and controlers to distract me are fitted haha.

But guys there is a little bad news and good news to add, ive found some nice rust holes in the chassis that need attension asap. there is a large hole in the inner wheel arche where water an stones flick up and two other large holes on the floor pan where the jacking points are...tut. So some welding to do
But the good news is ive bought water/methonol injection for the cinq to go with the J and S playing the role off helping to keep charge temps down for reliability and also because im going to have a hard time fitting a large cooler, the kit is brand new and im picking it up on fri, it is a simple kit that works of off an adjustable boost pressure switch. A combination off this and the new throttle bob im having made will see another 15-20bhp seen as the turbo will hapily flow 180bhp @ 15psi on a nice setup, but id be able to gain more power while still reducing the current boost pressure.

Ill get some piks up as i fit both the J and s active knock controller and the methonol injection!

thanks guys

jason

belts look alright in dont they

I bet its like a rocket already, do you not think you should concentrate more on handling now though? Given that you can now probably keep up with most "fast" cars, scoobies, etc in a straight line.

I bet its crying out for an LSD.

its lookin like a dream now m8! The new harness belts just round it off perf. And as for the power i just love
it more and more every time i go out in it or wen we go for a drive! Its just unbeliveable like wen we came home
the other nite wen we had a little race in 3rd it just left me for dead lol love it

Fishy

munkul wrote:I bet its like a rocket already, do you not think you should concentrate more on handling now though? Given that you can now probably keep up with most "fast" cars, scoobies, etc in a straight line.

I bet its crying out for an LSD.

your totaly right mate, it does need sorting big time! its a great agile little car but its a handlful and very twitchy now. The brakes need setting up with a bias valve as it wonders at the back under hard braking which makes me nervous, it flys over to the curb rapildy without warning when the road is wet in third as the turbo comes in, and i need to see about reducing roll as the very light back end is abit erm......wobbley when there is only me and not alot off fuel in it lol.

The LSD is going to be a deffinate priority this year and i was directed to this site for a "build it yourself lsd" that has been proven to be very good here is the link -

http://store.phantomgrip.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=235

Also im going to invest in some camber bolts to give a little neg camber for better cornering grip an a little less under steer.

thanks

jason

88rsr wrote:belts look alright in dont they

They look ace mate your an absoulute star on the cheap parts front once again

They really hold you tight in your seat which adds to the hole racing feel. They will be getting mated with some buckets shorty i think to finish it off.

thanks

jason

FISHYGT wrote:its lookin like a dream now m8! The new harness belts just round it off perf. And as for the power i just love
it more and more every time i go out in it or wen we go for a drive! Its just unbeliveable like wen we came home
the other nite wen we had a little race in 3rd it just left me for dead lol love it

Fishy

thanks mate, glad you like the power! youve seen it in action more than anyone now haha.....remember the big hill on way to the boat! 100mph still going in fifth......never thought id crack my old 85mph because off having to use fifth gear as i get near the top running out off revs in fourth but it suprised the hell out off me when i changed to fifth and it started climbing again from 95 to get me to 100 by the time we hit the top.......followed by a very bum clenching moment as the the car almost left the floor as i wanted to turn a little to the left to stay on the road

thanks

jason

Buckets would look perf would finish the interior off nicely liking to see the handling side of things with the neg camber i know how well the Spax PSX kit is with me havin one and i think it's ace so with the camber gettin sorted and less under steer it should handle well.