My 1250cc Fiat Cinquecento Turbo

picked the methonal injection up yesterday!it is from a Ford Sierra RS Cosworth rally car and im very pleased to find it is an Aquamist kit so in the future i can use my Aquamist MF2 to control the water/methonal injection better if i go down that route.
The kit is vertually new and comes with 3 different size nozzles to choose from, i need to look into the nozzle's flow rates and compare them to the brake specific fuel consumption off my engine so i can correctly match the right nozzle for my engine. Im thinking a good place to start will be between 15-20% off the fuel consumption should be injected as methonal when required and i will probably start the methonal injection at 10psi so ill start fitting it soon.
I want another washer bottle to go with the kit so it can have a seperate tank for methonal/water mix rather than using just water in my washer bottle.
The onlky other issue is where im going to mount the jet.....ideally it should be mounted far away from the TB so the water/meth can be burnt off taking the unwanted heat with it but i cant mount it in the cooler as it is plastic on the ends so its abit dodgy, i could try and mount it and seal it into one off the boost pipes.

thanks

jason

cool stuff.

thought about injecting it before the turbo? seems that a lot more people are doing it these days on rx-7s etc, keeps the density of the airflow through the turbo right up so is more effective than cooling it back down after the turbo... or so the theory goes. Of course thats water only AFAIK - although the cool side of the turbo wouldnt get hot enough for combustion so suppose its possible....
whats the difference with methanol? i thought the meth only burned in the combustion chamber?

just out of interest, why isnt 160bhp good enough for you? are you really trying to see the max power your engine can take before the bottom end lets go? lol

munkul wrote:
just out of interest, why isnt 160bhp good enough for you? are you really trying to see the max power your engine can take before the bottom end lets go? lol

Yeah he's a greedy bitch

munkul wrote:cool stuff.

thought about injecting it before the turbo? seems that a lot more people are doing it these days on rx-7s etc, keeps the density of the airflow through the turbo right up so is more effective than cooling it back down after the turbo... or so the theory goes. Of course thats water only AFAIK - although the cool side of the turbo wouldnt get hot enough for combustion so suppose its possible....
whats the difference with methanol? i thought the meth only burned in the combustion chamber?

just out of interest, why isnt 160bhp good enough for you? are you really trying to see the max power your engine can take before the bottom end lets go? lol

hello mate, i did think about injecting it before the turbo a few times but didnt really now enough about it to say if it would benifit it more....surpose i can exsperiment alittle over time and monitor the results on the charge temp logger.
Ow and as for your question 160bhp is plenty enough for me lol, im mainly just fitting the methonal injection for reliability purposes as im sure your well aware off what happens when you push lots off power and boost from a small capacity engine.....id feel alot better nowing the charge temps in the cylinder will be massively reduced helping to fend off det and damage from the heat (especially if a temp lean mixture ever occurs) etc etc, but if ever the power became to much for the bottom end then i surpose ill be one off the few that exsperinces the true limit of the 75 engine and there for think about going forged on the pistons with light conrod work like shot peening etc. Thing i always think about is it cost me 80 quid for a 75 engine last time around and was easy to fit over a weekend,,,,on alot off other cars id be far more worried lol.
Dont get me wrong though the last thing i want is a broken rod or a badly damged engine in anyway, but fitting the water/methonol injection is a step in the right direction to build up the reliability of the engine, and i can always back the boost off a little if the power hike is too much for a safer setup.
Not sure how the methonal works mate id be interested to learn more....if it doesnt burn off until the cylinder then id class it as a good thing but one thing i do no is methonal will absoarb alot more heat as im sure you now so ill be using a good 50-70% mixture off methonal to go with the water.

thanks#

jason

"ideally it should be mounted far away from the TB so the water/meth can be burnt off taking the unwanted heat with it" seemed to suggest it burns before getting to the cylinder, lol.
Aye fair does with the methanol, raises effective octane a bit too so cant be bad. I might find myself running something similar eventually.... NO! MUST STOP MODDING!!! dammit youre making me want to go further lol

EDIT: been reading up on it, apparently using more than 50% methanol can increase risk of pre-ignition... dunno how accurate it is but read for yourself
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

munkul wrote:"ideally it should be mounted far away from the TB so the water/meth can be burnt off taking the unwanted heat with it" seemed to suggest it burns before getting to the cylinder, lol.
Aye fair does with the methanol, raises effective octane a bit too so cant be bad. I might find myself running something similar eventually.... NO! MUST STOP MODDING!!! dammit youre making me want to go further lol

EDIT: been reading up on it, apparently using more than 50% methanol can increase risk of pre-ignition... dunno how accurate it is but read for yourself
http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

thanks for that ill have a nosey at that. In your quote im refering to the water.....didnt realize id put methonal there my misstake
You should carry on modding! once you get the bug there is no cure haha.

Any way to everyone ive ordered some new toys to increase the handling capabilityis off the car -

Rally Designs full "soft" anti-roll bar kit for rear off car includes -

roll bar grade 12 (soft)
drop links x 2
all bushes in polyurathane
all mounts etc
kjnife blade ends for antiroll bar

should really tighten up the car and give big results in grip through the tight corners where cinqs seem to understeer alot.

Also bought a set of Ebiach 1-1.7mm camber adjustment bolts to make the most off the lessend bosy roll and increase the grip through the corners.
Im really excited about the new handling mods because ive always nown cinqs down side was the body roll bought on by the rear off the car thus loading up the front end and causing understeer so cant wait to see the results.

thanks

jason

On a diffrent note,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The car looked good today mate was really impressed with the speed. Just have to get that flinstone syndrome sorted and you will be well away.

James_ST wrote:On a diffrent note,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, The car looked good today mate was really impressed with the speed. Just have to get that flinstone syndrome sorted and you will be well away.

thanks mate glad you like it, the first off the holes has been patched by James at work tonight and it looks great so im over the moon with that.

And also some other good news....you and Ryan may remember me moaning yesterday about how bad the car was driving with the bad hesitating and the juddering under load etc, not to mention it felt down on power enough to notice less go. Well this morning it took a turn for the worse and the hesitating was really bad and it was shouting out weak mixture to me so i wipped the plugs out to see a sign off weak running if id have received my wideband when i ordered it I would have seen this on our run out yesterday and I would have gone home to prevent melt down,but today even the narrow band was piking up a very weak mixture while hesitating on boost!! but it turns out the settings on the Fuel Cut Defender have been changed by the vibrations of the car over time and the voltage clamping screw had turned back causing the ECU to cut fuel..........woops!

Me and my dad have just been out in it setting it up correctly and its back to full potential with what i can only describe as monstrous acceleration heheeeeeee, while accelerating in third on the 1/4 mile near me it managed to throw the front faces off one off my gauges into the rear off the car haha.
Glad she is back up and running and it drives alot smoother than before thanks to the fueling staying rich for more off the time.

thanks

jason

Glad it's gettin sorted Fred Flintstone you should have nice dry feet soon then

Cit C2 VTS wrote:Glad it's gettin sorted Fred Flintstone you should have nice dry feet soon then

here you go brez all done!

here are a few off the latest pics including my new water/methonal injection!

New bits look ace glad the floor is sorted was gettin worried you were gona fall out the bottom of the Cinq

Just a quick update on the slow progress lol

For the last week or so ive been having some time off the car because its been getting to me abit lol, the smoke has started coming from the exhaust again badly when on idle for a while at random times that seem to have no pattern! so ive just been driving it to work instaed off letting it get to me!
I think that a couple of things are leading to this problem, the oil return isnt the best and it makes the seals sensitive to breather issues and oil grade etc etc. After the new setup i ran the engine on 5w/40 fully syn for the best protection for the engine but these old Fiat engines do tend to like thicker oil for the best "smooth running" so i recently went back to my old oil which was 10w/40 semi syn with a Wynns treackle like oil treatment or wynns and 5w/40. This seemed to suit the engine before and it ran much smoother and quieter, but it seems to have upset the turbo by running it on this oil so im going to go back to fully syn so it can escape the turbo more freely.

The camber bolts and anti roll bar are still in my room , mainly because when i get some motivation back shortly i need to change the rack ends and track rod ends as mine are knackered to allow it to be tracked after the camber bolts are fitted, and the anti-roll bar will need some work to fit also.

One of my main priority's at the moment is to get the methonal injection on there as the weather getter hotter, today my inlet temps where 15 degrees hotter than normal resulting in a noticeable loss in power and the engine has felt more laggy, plus the fact that in the hot weather id like to see the inlet temps as low as possible to keep the engine reliable in terms off detanation.
Im looking for a small alloy water tank for the back off the car to store the meth/water mixture in around 5-6litres or something like that, im also looking into getting a battery relocation kit for the rear end......i want as much of the cars weight moved to the rear for better balance etc.

thanks

jason

dunno if youve answered this before, but is it possible that the new turbo needs an oil restrictor?

munkul wrote:dunno if youve answered this before, but is it possible that the new turbo needs an oil restrictor?

hello mate, yes it may need a ristrictor in it....to be honest id forgot about the possibility off fitting one from ages ago. Maybe it ought to be my next thing to try for deffinate. Thanks

jason

Spent a few hours cleaning poilishing etc on saterday after putting all the bad weather behind me, the car has done well through the crappy winter and im glad to get back into looking after the outside in the good weather -





polished the wheels and shined the tyres up too!

Good like to see a nice shiny motor it's gleaming

its a good feeling when you do a proper clean, i did a 6 hour session the other month and even though i was foooked i loved how the car looked after, keep it up

Just invested in a Carbon Fibre battery box for the back off the car to relocate the battery, i need some more weight in the back plus it will free up some under bonnet space for either an aftermarket ECU or a nice catch tank. Just need to get the wiring etc, the guy who i have bought it from is going to modifiy the Rally Designs ARB kit so it will somehow fit my car too!!

jason

very nice!

Super Si wrote:very nice!

Thankyou mate

Jason

Hello guys, got a few plans for the next few weeks on the little missile.

I'm afraid the running faults the car has always had on and off (Ryan,James n Matt no exactly what i mean......Blackpool!) have got a lot worse and have made the car nothing but a little s##t to drive around normally.
Its lost its throttle response all together and full throttle from idle results in either the engine cutting out or a good 8 seconds off no change in RPM followed by a very very rough few seconds as the turbo starts to come in and the MPI kicks in then its sweet as a nut to the redline.
So its coming off road for a few weeks once i get another car to strip out the old engine wiring loom and sensors etc so i can test/ replace any faulty or dodgy sensors and fit my second hand loom making sure any earthing points are well grounded.

The issue is spoiling what is a very good set up underneath, I no it has the ability to work fine because there is the odd day where the fuelling on the SPI set up works ok and the off boost power is great, smooth and clean, making it far far easier to get onto boost!, when its hesitating it can make getting onto boost almost impossible leaving no acceleration.
Once the issue is sorted it will make the car a lot faster (more drivable) as a road car. While its off road I'm going to get a new throttle body plenum made up with a 2" inlet and get a new downpipe made up without the huge restriction caused by the pipe diameter drop, so this will help lower turbo lag and increase high speed flow freeing up a few horses in the process. Also on the same subject I'm taking the TB off and swapping the 38mm adaptor plate for the Tricker 40mm item which again will free up the breathing further and help the spool up slightly, this means the Idle valve will have to be unplugged again but to be honest it ran loads better that way and the idle speed can be set a little higher making the engine run a lot smoother and having the added bonus effect off stopping the horrid blue smoke from the return issue!

Other things while its off road will include some wiring work, a wide band lambda, some welding and the camber set at 2 degrees all tracked up so i can put my new Falken tyres to test on the front end.
Ive also got hold off some nice stainless steel for a water/methanol tank in the centre rear end so it will hold more fluid that the little micra screen wash bottle i have now.

just need another car now!........

jason

I've also managed to reacquire my old FM intercooler which I bought over a year ago and then sold on after realising that it needed to be mounted externally!
However I have come to the realization that a 1.2 running over 160 bhp at high boost (an far higher future boost levels) deserves and needs a larger better flowing more efficient intercooler!

So here is is, i'm going to mount it half in and half out off the bumper by cutting the bumper to fit, the mushroom air filter can then be moved over to one side and a bike style number plate can be fitted. This increases the reliability of the engine as well as increase the power and torque in more ways than one, firstly it flows far better which was proven to be one off the best ways a good cooler increases power. 2 it will cool the air down better meaning more available oxygen and 3. it will have less off a pressure drop from being more efficient meaning more boost on the manifold side. Hopefully this means I can achieve the same results as now while turning down the boost a little leaving lots off scope for the future engine works and power!

here is the cooler - its roughly twice the size as the GT cooler without the downside of plastic end caps.



Thanks

jason

or8 boss. That looks mint, thats goin to look mint when its on m8! Just wanted to know
if i could have the gt intercooler of you for my kit as it is bigger than the astra turbo diesel intercooler. Cheers zippins

Fishy

1250cinqturbo (ADMIN) wrote:I've also managed to reacquire my old FM intercooler which I bought over a year ago and then sold on after realising that it needed to be mounted externally!
However I have come to the realization that a 1.2 running over 160 bhp at high boost (an far higher future boost levels) deserves and needs a larger better flowing more efficient intercooler!

So here is is, i'm going to mount it half in and half out off the bumper by cutting the bumper to fit, the mushroom air filter can then be moved over to one side and a bike style number plate can be fitted. This increases the reliability of the engine as well as increase the power and torque in more ways than one, firstly it flows far better which was proven to be one off the best ways a good cooler increases power. 2 it will cool the air down better meaning more available oxygen and 3. it will have less off a pressure drop from being more efficient meaning more boost on the manifold side. Hopefully this means I can achieve the same results as now while turning down the boost a little leaving lots off scope for the future engine works and power!

here is the cooler - its roughly twice the size as the GT cooler without the downside of plastic end caps.



Thanks

jason

Glad your fitting the bigger intercooler best look and most efficient will look mean stickin out the bumper.