Choosing the right turbo for me in my stage three project

munkul wrote:guages are awesome

what date have you got RR sesh booked for?

I havnt yet mate, noble's usualy book me in within a week off me ringing up but my plan between now and then is firstly to sort the turbo out, and while the turbo is off and sent away ill be taking the GSR head off mine and swapping it for a slightly worked over standard head to get rid off the extra 1mm lift on the head that i have and then fitting my new J and S safegaurd knock controller.

jason

Hello guys, here we go again with the latest update -

following my smoking problem ive made a few changes and seen a few more posabilitys as to why its doing it in the first place.
My oil return was on my mind alot.....it doesnt take much to be wrong with it to make it cause the turbo to leak internaly so i went out and bought a new sump and dug out an old IHI turbo oil return pipe that was angled upwards (unlike my old one which was at 90dgree to the sump which is tilted forwards) and had it welded to the new sump at a steep angle. I monted it to the car and plumbed it up and its now perfect with a steep slope with no restrictions straight into the sump.

The next thing was to see if by removing the oil cooler it had raized the oil pressure to high for the turbo to cope with so i went out and bought some new oil cooler pipes and mounted it behind my intercooler so the engine is now oil cooled again.

The journey home was very smokey tosay the least

But this morning coming to work i didnt see any smoke even parked facing down works very steep drive way...........5 mins later after idling for a while on the flat a little smoke started coming from the exhaust daaaaaaaam.
Ill see how the drive home goes tonight but my next step is to pipe the breather system up to the inlet of the turbo so there is always a slight - heavy vacume on the crankcase which will help the oil flowing from the turbo and also stop pulsing air from trying to go up the turbo return and making it smoke.

If this fails then i have to admit defeat and send the turbo back for an inspection.

thanks

jason

is the restrictor for the oil feed only necessary on ball bearing turbos? There isnt the possibility that the seals werent to the same spec as before? or could it just be a one-off bad quality?

or could it be the seals were knackered by a bad return line and even though now its sorted they are still passing through wear?

or could they have been damaged by Poo Sprinkle in the lines?

munkul wrote:is the restrictor for the oil feed only necessary on ball bearing turbos? There isnt the possibility that the seals werent to the same spec as before? or could it just be a one-off bad quality?

or could it be the seals were knackered by a bad return line and even though now its sorted they are still passing through wear?

or could they have been damaged by Poo Sprinkle in the lines?

Hello mate, an oil restrictor shouldnt be nessesary on this setup no, people tend to get pressure problems with larger diameter oil feed pipes so it tends to flood the turbo.
There is a big possability that the seals earnt to spec yes, id be happy if this was the cae, its an odd setup really....GT15 bearing housing with a GT17 shaft and seals etc, so there could be a very very small difference that would have been difficult to see.
Id hope it wasnt crap in the lines i cleaned them really well and fitted it back on after priming the line and turbo with clean oil.

Im vertually at the conculsion now that there is a fault with the turbo seals or a problem with the back pressure drop made by the GT17 housing as apposed to my small 0.35A/R t15 housing.....that would exsplain why it didnt smoke before...

I f i simplify it for myself i see it like this, the only thing thats changed in a way to affect this is the larger turbine housing an new oil seal, so im guessing its related to this

thanks

jason

Jason

It is a good chance that it is the Turbo, the way you look after your engine it is unlikely to be crap in the oil unless you did something very silly which again is very unlikely

Cento oil pressure is nothing special so it hardly will have blown the seals on it's own unless the return was blocked badly. Back pressure, doubt it, never been a problem and as you have open breathing even less likely

My guess is they have used the wrong seals, does it still smoke if you run it without the air filter?

allanhelen wrote:Jason

It is a good chance that it is the Turbo, the way you look after your engine it is unlikely to be crap in the oil unless you did something very silly which again is very unlikely

Cento oil pressure is nothing special so it hardly will have blown the seals on it's own unless the return was blocked badly. Back pressure, doubt it, never been a problem and as you have open breathing even less likely

My guess is they have used the wrong seals, does it still smoke if you run it without the air filter?

hi martin thanks for the reply, yes it still smokes without the airfilter. Its confusing me a little because i can pull up on works steep drive without a hint of oil smoke one day and then the next i can be filling the place with smoke!
id rather it just bellow smoke out all the time so i can cure it more easy but the things ive done so far havnt helped at all, and yes your right i look after it well and i cleaned all the oil ways/pipes really well with carb cleaner.........no crud to be found here
I even changed the oil again last night as an extra attempt to help.

I think ive tried just about everything other than trying to spin the housing to make the return face straight down but again its way within limits set by all turbo manafacturers.......another odd leak i have is oil running down the oil return from the oil return gasket/bolt hole nearest to the engine (where it is angledaway from slightly) but ive taking this off and siliconed it but had no luck curing it, that would suggests to me that there is a restiction or pressure going back up the return but the return is very good now and far better than vanaakens return pipe which had no prblems at all in the first place! i even tried running with a pipe shovd over the dipstick hole without the dip stick to allow the crank to breath freely but it didnt stop the problem....tut

Looks like ill deffinatly be taking the turbo back off soon if it doesnt clear

jason

is the oil return a push fit or a banjo fitting? are you taking the oil feed from the post filter outlet?

allanhelen wrote:is the oil return a push fit or a banjo fitting? are you taking the oil feed from the post filter outlet?

its a push fit rubber oil hose with jubalee clips, same as before. And the oil feed comes from the top outlet of the two take off,s......that is where vanaaken (or on one of the previous owners ran it from) that sound right to you, im not sure which way or how the oil runs through that housing so i dont no if its filtered or not, never thought about it, just assumed who ever put it there new what they where doing.

jason

Check out the Burble tread I'm sure David (Rallycinq) got the answer

(mine was different of course because mine came from the Oil pressure switch outlet)

Hello

last night i tried out a new sump breather i had as one last dich effort to cure the smoke.....it didnt work.

So ive been on the phone with midlands today who are being great, Andy at midlands has said to send it back to have a good look around the turbo as there could be an issue with the oil ring seal and also a possable problem with the housing itself, he also said he will fit a true seal oil ring in there which is an improved type of oil control ring aimed at after market stuff like freeflow exhausts etc to try and help. Either way it coming off this weekend and they are picking the turbo up on monday so we will see what happens there

Other news ive fitted a stronger spring in the dump valve because the old one was setup for a t15 @ 0.35 bar so it opened way to easy and stayed open on idle sucking unfiltered air in (spoiling the breather setup) the spring was given to me by noble motorsport a few months back and its a 10-15psi spring which starts to open at around 0.5 bar so upto 0.5 bar so you get comp surge at very low boost........which i am willing to let go for the added vacume on idle made by the dump valve being shut and there for helping to pull breather gasses out of the engine (and filter all of the air coming in). This way when boost is high (over 10psi the dump valve opens preventing harsh stall on the turbo when it needs it the most) The old valve was alot worse on the new turbo due to the added flow making it open for longer etc.

Jason

hello

The turbo is off today ready to go back too Midlands tomorrow for inspection, i did however notice something worrying when i removed the rad for an inspection off my own regarding the set-up and i found that when the guy welded me the adaptor plate to the manifold he didn't weld it totally flat so the turbo doesn't sit parallel to the floor, this could mean the oil is running towards the turbine housing side of the turbo and causing the leakage past the seals but its not leaning excessive and i believe it to be within limits! if the problem persists after the turbo has come back i may be forced into making a new manifold with a better adaptor plate.

Also ive noticed the oil leaking from the turbo itself has stopped after sorting out the new sump return and pipe,and also the sump breather. The problem was possibly down too the new turbo sitting lower down than before and messing up the angle for the oil flowing out of the turbo

Just have to wait and see what the guy at Midlands has to say when he has a look at the turbo and go from there.

jason

could possibly be that with the weld glad it's off and can't wait until it's done could they possibly have the turbo a while.

not really mate, a quick strip down for inspection and then fit the aftermarket oil seal, should be ok but we will see, im desperate to get it setup so i can drive it properly mate its getting medown and mad.....a guy in a starlet turbo stopped next to me today and laughed at the car before screaming off at full throttle lol........ive remembered the car so when i see him next boy am i gonna show him what a turbo cinq can do hehe! it was quicker than the local starlet turbos's at 125bhp so lets see what it does to them when its done.

jason

good that's good then the chav's in the Starlet's glad i didn't get one you'll eat him alive.

Been on the phone with Midlands yesterday to see if they had done the turbo but no.......

Andy said he looked at the turbo in the box and instantly wasnt happy with the diameter off the return pipe from the turbo!!??
It is the standard T15 return pipe (which he had seen before and not mensioned), he now wants to put a bigger return on it which would mean removing the sump again and fitting a bigger return as well as getting some pipe to fit! dam! i really dont see an issue with the return its no smaller than the volvo T5/D5 turbo returns i see everyday but still he is spinning the housing and fitting the new uprated oil seal so lets see what happens!

Either way im not getting it back till next week

(matt-cento - i will get the numbers as soon as he sends me the turbo back or ill try and dig out the reciept to see if its on there )

jason

Ok mate no probs at all. Im going to get a set of thoses injectors tomorrow so ill let you know if they fit and what readings i get from them.

matt_cento wrote:Ok mate no probs at all. Im going to get a set of thoses injectors tomorrow so ill let you know if they fit and what readings i get from them.

ok great thanks mate

jason